February 17, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
Episode 50 : Buddhism
We take a moment to ask what exactly Buddhism is and how Zen fits within that framework. And get hopelessly tangled up trying to make sure we cover all the bases. A good lesson that we should just stick to talking about celebrities and hedgehogs.
Links mentioned:
- Here’s the interview Gwen did with someone studying Women in Buddhism.
Books mentioned:
- Lama Surya Das : Awakening to the Sacred: Creating a Personal Spiritual Life
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Posted by Jeremy
February 18, 2008 @ 10:02 am
I always thought of Buddhism as the philosophy of taking the entire realm of human experience and applying it contemplatively to understand the human condition. That’s a pretty huge and somewhat useless umbrella definition though. Chogyam Trungpa said a Buddhist is either, “Someone who meditates or someone who feels bad about not meditating.”
I’ve studdied mostly in the Shambhala tradition; however, I also sit with a group called DIY Dharma, formerly known as the Vancovuer Dharma Punx. The Dharma Punx movement, started by Noah Levine, can be a good place to start if you’re young. You get to meet a lot of people from all sorts of different (Eastern) spiritual traditions and practices. All of the experience I’ve received while being there seems more practical and ready to deal with the gritty realism of life, whereas, at the Shambhala center it’s not uncommon to spend a discussion period talking about magical animals or someone having a seriously borring midlife crisis. That’s not to say Shambhala doesn’t have it’s merrits, it’s focus on cutting through spiritual materialism is priceless for anyone with a belief of any kind. Other than that, I’ve read a bunch of Zen books too but have never actually met anyone in real life who says that’s their practice. Lastly, in my humble opinion, I think the best first book for people who are interested in learning about Buddhism and meditation is ‘Turning the Mind into an Ally’ by Sakyong Mipham.
But at the end of the day, if you just like to sit down and be with yourself, and are trying to be a better person when you’re not practicing that: who the fuck cares what you call yourself?
Posted by dan
February 19, 2008 @ 2:47 am
heya guys,
that podcast was prime, very cool. keeping it real!
dan
Posted by ZenBrat
February 20, 2008 @ 5:27 am
To me, Zen are those moments of transcendance that put us in touch with something incomprehensibly larger than ourselves. A moment of clarity that brings all of out consciousness into an immediate, present centerpoint. This moment cannot be ready grabbed or found or even really sought out. It sort of finds us. This is a state that is beyond label, religion, or philosophy, and in fact is refered to in the human experience in all religions, philosophies, arts, etc.
I do believe that we can expand our consciousness in a way that allows us to tune into this moment more readily. This is through finding your Tao. In fact, I almost believe that by definition, finding your Way in the Universe is finding the path that most readily atunes us into the Zen moments in our life.
The first time I heard about Buddhism, what I liked the most was Buddha’s statement: If you find the Buddha on the path, kill the Buddha. The idea was to not be Buddhist, but to follow the Buddha path which was to find a new way in the Universe, and that each practitioner has that upon themselves to resolve.
The beaty in this philosophy is that it allows for one to find their path through emulation of other paths, or through following a fresh new path all their own.
The problem is that as soon as it becomes labeled and structured, the mind becomes rigid and moves further from Zen.
Posted by Joe
February 20, 2008 @ 10:25 pm
Shunryu Suzuki, among many others I’m sure, put it that at the end of the day Zen and probably Buddhist practice in general, whatever that means, is “nothing special.” While this practice of ours is nothing special, but saying that or even thinking it is usually not enough, because most of us don’t really know what it means. In this sense, I think that Zen is the long day we live learning how to say this and mean it, so that the next day we can do something else.
Posted by Katie
February 24, 2008 @ 10:14 am
It took me a long time to figured out what I wanted to comment on. I’ve been listening to this podcast for a long time, about 6 months now.
I think the beauty of this podcast is that it promotes conversation over Q & A panels. At my alma mater, there are a wide variety of faiths. About once a month, all of the heads of the particular student faith organizations would get together and discuss the importance of faith in life, rather than the differences of them. Needless to say, there was no representative on the panel for the Buddhist crowd. No big deal. The more I study Buddhism and Zen, in particular, I’m finding that it is less like the definition of religion and more like a lifestyle or philosophy. When someone asks me what religion I am, I tell them I am a Buddhist because it is the most correct answer. Looking around my room, the only item that is “Buddhist” is my zafu (cushion).
Surya Das was mentioned in the podcast. The first book of his that I read was “Letting Go of the Person You Used to Be.” For me, my journey to finding the right path was to let go of the negative feelings I had about the faith in which I was raised. (I knew that the faith I was raised in was not for me.) In this particular book, questions are presented that you can sit with and analyze. After finishing that book, I read his other books in the Awakening series.
This podcast (as a whole) has helped me have open conversations with people about faith or any idea that needs to be discussed.
Gwen and Patrick - Thank you for literally showing me that it is perfectly okay to not understand something in its entirety. The idea is to talk about it. Faith is not something that is to be understood - it is something to be practiced. I like that both of you are passionate about sharing ideas with the world. I wish more people would do that.
Thank you for podcasting! I listen every week! (FIVE STARS!!)
Posted by T
February 25, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
I would love to hear your thoughts on cultivating a daily practice. Don’t know why I still struggle with this one but I do!
Appreciate the podcasts - thanks.
Posted by Dc
July 4, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence on words and letters;
Direct pointing to the mind of man;
Seeing into one’s nature and attaining Buddhahood.
- Bodhidharma
Posted by admin
July 5, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
Funny you should post that Dc as I wrote a 25 page report debunking that stanza as pure Zen fantasy in graduate school. Even Zen Buddhists are guilty of hamming it up.
Patrick
Posted by admin
July 5, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
That’s what I <3 about Zen, Patrick! You hit the nail on the head…the cheese factor!!!
Posted by Dc
July 5, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
I guess your 25 page report is definitive and absolute. I’d appreciate it if you’d summarize your argument here.
Posted by admin
July 6, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Nothings absolute, but it’s pretty clear that the early Zen guys were pretty desperate to get some street cred, so they came up with this idea of a secret lineage beyond words and letters that only the true Buddhists were privy to. Another example is the origin story of Zen. You know the one… the Buddha, instead of giving a lecture, just held up one flower, and only Mahākāśyapa understood the deep meaning of this, and thus the Buddha transmitted the essence of his teaching (Zen). There is absolutely no trace of any story like this in any older Buddhist writings. The story just magically appeared about the time Zen (Ch’an) was trying to establish itself in China.
So, you’re a new sect of a religion and you’re trying to get yourself set up. The problem is because you’re new, no one believes your ideas and techniques have much value. So what do you do? You make yourself old! By hinting that over the centuries people have been passing this information on secretly and that’s why no one’s ever heard of it before. This approach has the added benefit that whenever someone comes up with an objection (i.e. they can’t find the history that substantiates the claims) you can say, “ah, that’s because the people who weren’t in on the secret teaching tried to suppress it out of jealousy and fear.”
We see this same thing all over the place, in the yoga and martial arts communities it’s rampant. “Secret art of the Wu-Shing Iron Fist, available now on DVD!” It’s hucksterism, pure and simple.
Which isn’t to say that the actual content of the Zen message is diluted by the guys trying so hard to sell it. We should just be careful to not get to excited by the glorious history of our chosen practice.
Posted by admin
July 6, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
heh heh Patrick pw0ned Zen!
Posted by Dc
July 6, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
OMG, (or OMB) do you mean to say that there is a mythical component to Zen? Do you mean that Bodhidharma and Mahakasyapa didn’t exist? OMB, maybe even The Buddha didn’t exist! Am I an idolatrous literalist simpleton?
I’ve read D. T. Suzuki too, who was I assume one of the references for your 25-page report.
It doesn’t matter what the source is of the Bodhidharma quote (posting #7). It doesn’t even matter how or when Zen began. The quote is a poetic attempt to describe Zen. Same with the “finger pointing at the moon” metaphor.
How can one Pw0n Zen or even the Buddha Dharma for that matter?
If jumping up and down on my left foot would get me closer to the ideal of reaching full human potential, I’d do it. I think the practice of Zen is better though.
Dc.
Posted by admin
July 6, 2008 @ 6:18 pm
For the record, Patrick pw0ned himself, y’all…I’ll have nothing to do with that pw0nage… -Gwen
Posted by Bill
July 7, 2008 @ 5:51 am
Something tells me that in real life no one says Oh My Buddha! That is irritating.
Also, you do realize you are commenting on a podcast entitled “Zen is stupid - everything wrong with western buddhism” I think more often than not you hear Gwen and Patrick talk about their struggles to find the middle path and apply Zen best as possible in our modern world. It doesn’t do any good to get offended just because you don’t meet eye to eye on the history of Zen. I seem to think you aren’t getting the irony of Patrick’s post. It’s entertaining.