July 6, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Episode 69 : Consumption
A viewing of Wall-E prompts Gwen and Patrick to think about consumption and the consequences of it.
Links mentioned:
- The Onion article Patrick reads from.
- Stuff White People like : Recycling
Books mentioned:
- A decent review of Voluntary Simplicity, by Duane Elgin.
21 Comments »
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Posted by Dru
July 6, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
Patrick,
Just to point this out (and not to kill your story) but Coca-Cola does sell water.
http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/presscenter/img/imagebrands/downloads/lg_ko_dasani_bottle.jpg
—————————————-
My, infinitely minuscule parts are that I use reusable bags (perhaps a ZiS [logo] bag on cafepress or something like that in the future?), biking/walking rather then driving, minimalist showers (about 5min) and donating and buying from thrift shops/salvation army (reduce, reuse clothing).
My favorite little thing is that I do is a shopping style. I look for reseal-able containers so I can use them later, glass rather then plastic (for people I know who give out things like sauce, honey…) and I shop bulk (1 big rather then 3-4 small). In conjunction with the container reuse I take my own iced tea to work rather then buy something out of the vending machines; similarly with my work food and I’ve used most of the same containers for well over a year now.
NOTE: Keep track of and clean your reusables and don’t be lazy and let them get all funky.
Posted by admin
July 6, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
I know Coke sells water, but I’ve never seen Dasani sold in a developing country. It’s rows and rows of coke and fanta.
Posted by zach
July 6, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
I have to agree that Coke is EVERYWHERE. I have seen bottles washed up on beaches and when i was in India people had made small shelters from Coke billboards (Now THATS recycling). I have always been into electronics and am most likely addicted to consumer electronics. Right now i have been thinking a lot about the mass amounts of energy i use. So in the next few weeks me and a good friend of mine will be creating a wind turbine. This first one i think will be more of a novelty, power a laptop or two max. But instead of going out and buying one like i would normally do we are going to the junk yard to find our parts. There doesn’t seem to be a reason to purchase more STUFF when there is plenty already around. Just because it comes in pretty packages and has a fresh coat of paint doesn’t make t better than something previously used.
Posted by Kory
July 6, 2008 @ 9:01 pm
Gwen,
On a total side note … I wanted say thanks for turning me on to “The Four Hour Work Week” (Tim Ferriss) … I’ve been reading it for the last couple of days and I’m really enjoying it. Anyway, this was a book you mentioned way back and I’m just now getting around to reading it.
BTW, what is your perspective on this book now that some time has passed. Did you ever put any of these concepts to the test?
Posted by Mark
July 7, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Don’t recycle. There I said it. Don’t recycle. Putting aside aluminum, the cost to the environment in energy units (ie polutant-producing processes) far out weighs the marginal/miniscule benefits of recycling.
The environmental movement is founded on bad premises and poor science.
http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=340
Posted by Mark
July 7, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
True story.
When I was in college I realized that recycling does more harm then good. I would walk extra to throw plastic (recycled oil) in a trash can rather than put it in the recyling bin. My university was surrounded by about 1,000,000 acres of forests, so the thought of going through the extra effort of shipping paper to a recycling plant 1,000 miles away seemed stupid.
Anyway I used to get grief from other students for my “anti-earth” behavior, until…..It was revealed that the ultimate end of all the would-be recycled products and the trash on the campus was exactly the same: the local landfill.
Recycling and environmentalism is simply another form of attachment. You think you can make a difference in the earth’s ecosystem by doing next to nothing. Our ego-delusion is carressed by our culture in believing that we humans could actually harm the earth in a measurable way.
Posted by Tim
July 8, 2008 @ 8:20 pm
I was recently up at a conference in Denver (American Society of Mass Spectrometry) where we met all sorts of vendors for the scientific industry. So last week I received an envelope mailer - one of those large flat manila type envelopes - addressed from one of the vendors. Inside this mailing envelope was a packing slip, void of any relevant information aside from my contact info, and a letter.
This letter thanked me (and I am sure thousands of others received this letter) for stopping by their hospitality suite and that they are going to donate $4000 to American Forests to help preserve our trees.
Again: received a large envelope containing a packing slip and a letter informing me that they will donate $4k to help save the trees.
In addition to the great irony here, I am sure they mailed thousands of these things out at ever increasing postal costs. They could have used that money to increase their paltry donation and just sent a mass email to everybody if they really wanted the corporate advertisement.
Anyhow, on another note I recommend people pick up the June (I think) issue of Wired magazine. They have some interesting articles about quite a few of the fallacies put forth by environmentalists. Very interesting info.
Mark:
“Recycling and environmentalism is simply another form of attachment. You think you can make a difference in the earth’s ecosystem by doing next to nothing. Our ego-delusion is carressed by our culture in believing that we humans could actually harm the earth in a measurable way.”
I personally think this is a rather silly way of looking to frame the concept of “attachment.” This isn’t too far from saying that needing to breath atmospheric levels of oxygen is an attachment. If you may wish to recall, ole’ Sid the Buddha also talked about this entire “Middle Way” thing. As such, doing a reasonable amount of recycling, in my opinion, would be along the lines of practicing a middle way lifestyle and should not be confused with being attached. Again the key being reasonable recycling.
Additionally as an analytical chemist with about ten years of industry experience, and about five of that doing environmental analysis, I think I feel somewhat qualified in stating that us mere humans can harm the earth in a measurable way. Mainly because we have the techniques and methodology to measure it.
I don’t know about the entire “global warming” thing and how much of it is caused by humans, because I think that anybody wishing to be intellectual honest with themselves would realize that the amount of data used to evaluate these claims is rather sparse. Or rather the data that points to the human impact is pretty sparse.
However man-made environmental contaminants are easily measurable and have an obvious impact on the environment and the ecosystem. To not recognize this, would too, be intellectually dishonest.
Posted by Aleppo
July 9, 2008 @ 4:04 am
Patrick & Gwen,
Zen may be stupid, but you rarely talk about it any more, at least not as the focus as the podcast. Is it because you’re run out of Zen Buddhist topics to discuss? Do you both still practice zazen? Is it secondary to the other things in your life?
Aleppo
PS Still enjoy the podcast, though.
Posted by admin
July 9, 2008 @ 7:45 am
Aleppo,
Good point AND good question! We’re both still practicing (I practice yoga + sit zazen 3-4 times/week. Patrick at least as much). I’ve talked with Patrick about switching over to a more “open” formatted podcast (where the title is less about Zen, more about balanced lifestyle). I think that’s in the pipeline.
Sometimes we talk about how we don’t talk about Zen. I see the podcast as living a life that’s “Zen-infused” for lack of a better term + then talking about life through that lens. It’s not all-encompassing, but it definitely informs a lot of the decisions we make. Not sure if this answers the question, but that’s a start! -G
Posted by Aleppo
July 9, 2008 @ 11:39 am
Thanks for the reply, Gwen. I liked the Zen Zen is Stupid because it was so different to the other Buddhist podcasts out there (e.g. Buddhist Geeks) because you didn’t take yourself seriously yet still had learning and wisdom. And didn’t go all ‘new-agey’ and have adverts or stupid music! Balanced lifestyle podcasts are a bit more common.
Posted by admin
July 9, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
And by the way, we’re lifers, and we’ll never stop doing zen, even if we don’t talk about it. It’s not something we can just put down when we get sick of it, and trust me, we do get sick of it.
But there is a wave to the show, as there is in life. Sometimes you’re really focused on the spiritual, sometimes the day to day. You need both to have a healthy existence. So we’ll be talking about Zen again very soon I’m sure.
Patrick
Posted by Colin
July 13, 2008 @ 8:50 am
I have a little bit of hope coming from Seattle where recycling and composting is just what everyone does. I laugh because now everyone is crazy for reusable fabric bags and my family has been using them since I was born. Recently I went to Texas the shitter of America, now I have been there before, but my last visit was a real eye opener. As I walked down the street, I saw fat ass after fat ass with there fur coats and gaudy jewlery. When I asked my aunt where the recycling bin was she replied “right there” pointing towards the trash. I think it is a long shot to turn things around, but hey its worth a try.
P.S. Patrick, I just got back from Morocco, it is really hard to avoid everyone selling you stuff.
Posted by Iann
July 13, 2008 @ 9:29 am
Hey dudes,
I thought you might think this is interesting. http://sittingwithfire.blogspot.com/. The comments on the woodshed post are stupid, like in a zen is stupid sort of way.
BTW, you guys rock! I listened to all the episodes and now I’m jaded, bitter, and goalless. Just joking…mostly.
This is how I keep my impact low: I ride my bike or walk when I can, I reuse, I recycle, I buy in bulk, I eat as much non packaged fresh food as possible, I support my local growers, I get educated on what I can do, I make things myself as much as I can rather than buy new, I buy American and hand made stuff as much as possible, I’m a minimalist. Mostly I try to make mindful choices whenever possible.
Posted by Tim
July 13, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
Colin:
Being a displaced Texan I take more than just a bit of great offense with describing my home state as the shiter of America - not so Buddhist of a thought there might I add.
I think you must have some sort of ridiculous over-exaggeration at play: not many Texans walk around in fur coats in summer. Not even so much in winter. Also good job in judging people because you don’t like their jewelry. Wonderfully open minded.
Texas has a huge amount of power produced from wind mills in West Texas; Austin’s municipals buildings are mostly built from recycled buildings; in fact the Hill Country around the Austin area is considered one of the most “green” areas in the country; and finally the grocery store of choice for “progressive” (and I use that term very loosely in this case) people - Whole Foods - just happens to be a Texas based company.
I am from DFW and my folks used fabric shopping bags starting years ago, well before this most recent trend. I will admit, though, that it was not very common years ago.
What this really gets down to is that closed-minded assumptions about people are the sort of things that is doing a great injustice to all people everywhere. It’s interesting that you, and this sort of personality seems to be quite common, think that you have the “right way” and if you can only turn other people around then things will be okay. Start small and instead turn your attitude around before you begin to even consider getting a start on another 24 million people.
Posted by admin
July 13, 2008 @ 8:35 pm
Hmm, Buddhist slip-ups all over here, Colin for calling a place a shitter, and Tim for being attached to the idea that someone called his home a shitter, and me for sticking my nose in where it doesn’t belong!
Patrick
Posted by Colin
July 21, 2008 @ 9:56 pm
I would like to apologize to Tim, your response really shut me up and made me realize how judgemental and closeminded I get. Sorry for insulting your origins, it isn’t right to make assumptions and feel awful.
Posted by Colin
July 21, 2008 @ 9:57 pm
I feel awful. ^^^
Posted by admin
July 22, 2008 @ 1:28 pm
Ahh, it’s a moment of zen…. ah aH AHHH!
P
Posted by Tim
July 22, 2008 @ 6:45 pm
I obviously had a pretty severe knee-jerk reaction. As you may know Texans are quite proud of whence they come, and usually so to an over-obnoxious degree. Case in point.
I suppose my personal problems is that I lived in Texas, or in general the South, for most of my life and now live in central PA and visit a lot of the North. Due to that and the current administration it seems like I am always somehow defensive about things. Which is an obvious attachment issue.
As Patrick noted it is pretty silly (my words not his) to be attached to the concept I have of my home - but of all things to have a sense of attachment, this thing called “home” is pretty tough one to dismiss.
I suppose that is why it is called practice.
Posted by Meg
July 22, 2008 @ 8:59 pm
I just watched a show on National Geographic called “Six Degrees Could Change the World.” It was truly phenomenal. If the world got just two degrees hotter, then the coral reefs would die which would kill over 100,000 species. Some of those species actually help absorb CO2. So when those species die, the world will get hotter even faster. There will be a tipping point and it could be the world getting just two degrees hotter could do that. I sort of think this world is screwed, but there is definitely hope. We might just live differently. Popsci.com has a article about the future world. It has things like Pod Cars that are electric city cars. So you might go to a hub that’s near a subway entrance and then drive it where you want. You can then park it and fold it up and, using solar panels on the roof of the building, charge the Pod. Another thing are power sidewalks that generate power when walked on. People are coming up with creative ideas to save the world, and they just might work.
Posted by Colin
July 24, 2008 @ 12:16 am
It is great to think that all these innovations are going on and their are so many brilliant thinkers, but it is sad that they probably won’t get the attention or funding necessary. This is my favorite http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7243247.stm its a car that runs on air!!! I recently got my license, and so far I have been very conscious of how much im driving, and how to plan out my errands so that I am not going back and forth. In Seattle we are blessed with a wonderful transit system that goes everywhere you could ever need to go, unfortunately people don’t seem to care