October 27, 2008 @ 5:14 am
Episode 82 : Politics
Patrick fretitates on his inability to attain elected office, while Gwen is the cool-headed one for once. Our mics were on the fritz so the audio is back to the bad old days. Working on it.
Links mentioned :
- Gwen’s ranking among the top 50 most influential women in social media.
- And Gwen as one of the top 50 people to follow on Twitter.
- One of our favorite beverages, Brawndo. Win at Politics!!!
- A 50 minute video about Thich Nhat Hanh’s struggle to exert influence while remaining true to his Buddhist vows. Great stuff.
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Posted by Dave
October 28, 2008 @ 5:02 am
Gwen for Mayor! Better yet, Governor! Then she can become involved in a prostitution ring scandal!
I’d like to see a Buddhist in office. Has there ever been a prominent Buddhist political official in the US?
Posted by cynthia
October 28, 2008 @ 9:05 am
So much to digest in this episode…
I was planning on commenting before you put out the plea for comments…
Why can’t there be a different kind of politics? My daughter asked me this silly question that was in a quiz in a magazine or something she brought home from school:
“Do you believe that rules are 1. firm 2. guidelines 3. made to be broken?”
I answered guidelines, but asked her what she answered. Her answer #3 - made to be broken. I have to say I was so proud of her because that tells me that she has a willingness to question mandates that are dictated (whether it’s from me, her teacher, school or future situations. I’m not saying all rules are bad either especially ones concerning personal & other’s safety.)
So, if we look at our current political system’s rules - why can’t it be questioned? While this election has electrified more people, we still remain a nation of sheep and many people don’t challenge the status quo. I don’t know the statistics, but how many eligible voters actually vote during a presidential year? (just found data for 2004 - 64% voted, in 2000 only 60% voted.) But, I do sense that there is a gradual awakening happening and that gives me hope.
I do agree that to get to the top, there’s a fair amount of unsavoriness and I’m not sure anyone at the top is totally clean. Political intrigue has been going on forever - I’m not sure it can be changed. The place to start is at the local level, even if it’s running for a PTA board, neighborhood group, or other similar affiliations. If one can weather the storm that exists in these organizations, anything is possible! Believe me, the PTA meetings at my daughters school can get down right nasty. All the parents ultimately want what’s best for their kids - we just disagree occasionally on what the solutions are and can get very passionate in the process.
Somewhere along the line people stopped listening to others and only hear what they want to hear. I may be making a gross over generalization (GOG), but it doesn’t seem like many really take the time to figure out the what and why of opposing viewpoints. I’ve started doing that this year and while I haven’t changed my vote because of it, it sure seems like it’s helped me be a little more open with people, including a handful of friends and family who sit on the opposite side of the fence from me politically. Maybe I’m just too squishy.
On not voting - that just seems irresponsible and apathetic. I understand why someone could throw up their hands and let a few others decide the fate of politics, or threaten to move to Canada, but we have to vote according to our conscience for the best candidates and ballot issues that influence our country, region and cities - not to mention international relations.
Related to not listening and being sheep is the fear factor. I’m sick of the McCain/Palin camp using fear tactics and buzz words that are picked up by people who are afraid of change - frankly afraid of everything. Afraid of people of different races, religions, terrorists real and imagined, not being able to continue buying huge cars and having cheap gas, taxes, afraid of meeting their neighbors, being able to afford to go to the mall to therapy shop, afraid of arghhhhh everything that would force them to take a good long look at themselves and their belief systems. It’s a knee jerk reaction and has to be balanced by people who see the larger picture that is not black and white but shades of gray.
Activism vs. Politics - I think both are excellent ways of influencing change. Which one to practice depends on your constitution. Although, I will say that my heroes are not often politicians, rather they’re the activists who sometimes risk reputation, personal safety, financial gain, etc. in order to inspire change on small and large scales.
Re: turning off the noise that bombards us every day. I had this great argument about the need for people to educate themselves as to what’s going on in the world, but then I counter argued my point and that’s about all I can say. I haven’t read the newspaper in over a month, yet somehow, I still manage to get the gist of what’s going on via my internet activity or in conversations with others. Someone emails, blogs, tweets, posts videos on You Tube or Facebook and well, it’s a bit of an overload sometimes.
Finally, while I’m a short time listener, I love your podcast and don’t always have time to comment. You two are way more enlightened than I was in my twenties. Now in my early 40s, I’m only just starting to ask some of the questions you pose in your discussions. I guess that means there really is a little hope that people can change.
Posted by Dave
October 28, 2008 @ 9:40 am
One of my favorite parables I heard from Ajahn Brahm…
In a province in China there were two well known ascetics renowned for their wisdom and insight. The emperor caught wind of their great abilities and sought them out to become advisers in his kingdom. After finding their whereabouts the emperor personally went to the mountain top where they were living. When he got there he noticed that one was higher up the mountain than the other and thought that he was more wise so the emperor went up to that hermit first. He told the hermit how he wanted him in a position to advise the emperor in decisions made throughout the kingdom and that he would be paid very well and live in comfort. On and on the emperor went about the life of such a position and when he had finished the hermit stood up, went to a nearby stream, washed his ears out, and said, “I’m sorry I didn’t hear anything you said I had some filth in my ear”. Understanding this, the emperor went down the the second hermit on the mountain to request that he join the ranks of the emperor’s political advisers. As soon as the emperor started to tell the other hermit about the position, a messenger from the hermit on the top of the mountain came running in to the cave and said, “Don’t drink the water in the stream! There’s some filth in it!”
Posted by Ruth
October 29, 2008 @ 7:13 am
Hi kids! I thought there was good content from both of you this episode - good back-and-forth! The reason I listen is because I am roughly in the same situation you are (I’m only a year older) and so I am questioning the same things for are - kids, career, community involvement, mentoring, leadership, success….I enjoy listening how you take these issues apart and discuss the zen take on identifying with these labels or the pursuit of these endeavors. In this episode, Gwen, when you talked about how career success is gratifying and rewarding but there’s a danger to this success. And last week, when you talked about the idea that every great moment (like your wedding) is something you look forward to your whole life, but then after it happens, it’s one step closer to death….
Posted by Dave
October 29, 2008 @ 8:20 am
Isn’t looking at every step in the course of our life as a marker towards death an indication of the attachment to the self? “I” am going to die soon and this event is just an indication that “I” am closer to the end of “my” life?
Posted by zd
October 29, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
Good podcast guys. Agree with almost all of it. Sometimes we feel powerless to change what we have labeled as Important. We get caught up in the idea and it takes over space in our head. We attach so much of ourselves into our idea(l)s. And when those are challenged or ignored or whatever it’s like we’re being attacked or ignored or whatever.
I guess the right thing to do is to care, but not too much. Try and change things but don’t get wrapped up in the result.
But then again, I’m wrong about 80% of the time.
Posted by other dan
October 30, 2008 @ 4:04 am
Word up, zd
My approach in recent years is to believe but not to hope. What I mean by that is I do what I believe is right in the moment (or try to) not because I expect a positive change to follow in my fellow humans or on society, but on the faith that it is possible that such a change could occur.
As long as there is a possibility, however remote, of positive outcome — on oneself, on others, on the world/universe at large — there is a duty to act in a right manner. Whether or not the positive outcome is achieved is not our concern as long as we have done what was right.
Posted by carole
October 30, 2008 @ 5:53 am
It really tastes like i’m crushing a human skull!
Posted by dara
October 30, 2008 @ 7:35 am
Sometimes, on the really low days, my practice makes me feel like a doormat. And I’ll try to rationalize with myself, “was Jesus a doormat?” On the really low, low days I’ll answer “yes, yes he was.”
It’s like being the first one in a group to start singing happy birthday to someone. You really want to wish the person well, and you know it will sound great once everyone else joins in, but for the first few bars it’s just you, feeling like self-conscious crap and sounding like tone-deaf shit.
It certainly would be easier if everyone else jumped in.
Posted by Kj
October 31, 2008 @ 8:17 am
For me it seems that zen is the acceptance of reality. If the state of the world is shit, that state is reality and therefore there is no point in resisting it.
Accept it before doing something about it, instead of being negative and fucking things up.
If your zazen is shit, then accept it.
Because in the end, the part of you thats resisting the situation is your ego.
Posted by dan
November 7, 2008 @ 6:34 pm
do politicians actually wield that much power in America? it seems that the businesses who back these politicians financially in elections have considerable influence on a politician’s agenda one ‘in power’.
I’ve just started a new job which is influenced heavily by the political process… and i’d have to go with patricks view of politicians.
i guess it comes down to that age old question… should those who want power over others be granted it?
Posted by steveholl
November 7, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
Off topic, but in case you haven’t seen this yet, you got ‘horsed’:
http://theworsthorse.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/did-zazen-just-get-hot/
Posted by Dave
November 8, 2008 @ 5:52 am
me concur
Posted by whatever
November 9, 2008 @ 8:56 pm
Where is new zis
Posted by sarah
November 9, 2008 @ 10:09 pm
This discussion of the political process and the nature of politics was very intriguing to me. I think the biggest reason why violence is so connected with politics is that the very nature of politics is a struggle to gain power. Not everyone who gains the power uses it in a violent way, but almost everyone does. After scrapping and fighting and “being an asshole” to eke out a space and gain some control, fighting to maintain it and to gain more of it is necessary. It is the nature of power. And this type of power, a power over people and nations and industries, can be - and usually is - a very negative thing. It may lead to good, but often in indirect, negative ways.
True power may be in not fighting and in allowing things to happen without violent reaction. But true power is not the same as political power, which is always garnered through different means of combat.
I am very political. I went to school for it. It’s difficult to reconcile that side of my personality and education with my belief that politics is usually harmful. Don’t get me wrong; the political process has done much good. But it has also done great harm. And it will continue to do great harm, especially on an interpersonal level. This understanding is why I declined to pursue a career in politics. In some regard, I view it as a hobby. I like to see how things unfold. I like to predict what will happen. I always have the clear understanding that nothing is what it seems, and that history will always repeat itself.
I am passionate about my political beliefs and I participate accordingly. But it is very clear to me, and to many others, that politics is a nasty business. It is verbal, interpersonal, sometimes violent, and sometimes financial warfare on the “enemy,” or the opposition. There is nothing peaceful about it. And that’s why this is so difficult.
Anyway, thanks for the podcast.
Posted by jim w
November 12, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
fretitates is an excellent word.
Posted by anji
November 22, 2008 @ 11:35 am
As an independant Modern Zen follower, I questioned myself as to which presidential candidate would be best. I envisioned myself as a novice asking which presidential candidate would be best according to Zen philosophy. I also envisioned myself as a wise sage answering ‘’support Obama and realize you will cause many to suffer”. If you support ”Mc Cain you will cause many to suffer” . . You might consider meditating and cause at least yourself not suffer. If you forget about both candidates and just help others that might be better.The left that pretends to liberate has it’s head up it’s ass-who can remove it.Conservatives need to understand reality but there heads are in their asses.They might hit you if you try to remove them. So go meditate,help someone falling,clean your apt. and recycle plastic bags. Draw, dance to music, eat, play with your cat, and go to sleep. Perhaps this is the best you can do to help the world.
Another answer is voting for either one because you thought one might be slightly better would have been o.k. So Anji, as your Zen guide, digest these concepts and feel free to ask your inner sage.